Inkscape Forum Inkscape > Inkscape animation test

Hi again,

It's the guy who wants to use Inkscape to do animation again...

I just did a simple ball-bounce test animation.  I used layers for
onion-skinning and output a series of pngs, which were then assembled
into an avi in a separate program called Monkey Jam.  The curious can
see the animation at my sketch blog:

http://www.sketch.mattjordan.com/2006/06/05/inkscape-animation-test/

I'm actually pretty excited about the possibility of using Inkscape to
do more-or-less traditional, cel style animation.  One tedious bit,
though, is the outputting of the individual png frames.  Would it be
possible to write a script or a plug-in that would do that as a batch?
So, you'd have background layer plus layer 1 output as 000000.png,
background plus layer 2 as 000001.png, and so on?  If so, where would I
go to learn how to write such a script or plug-in?

Oh, and I'm still on Windows XP for now, in case that affects your 
answer.

Thanks,

Matt Jordan

Matt Jordan wrote:
> I'm actually pretty excited about the possibility of using Inkscape to 
> do more-or-less traditional, cel style animation.  One tedious bit, 
> though, is the outputting of the individual png frames.  Would it be 
> possible to write a script or a plug-in that would do that as a batch? 
> So, you'd have background layer plus layer 1 output as 000000.png, 
> background plus layer 2 as 000001.png, and so on?  If so, where would I 
> go to learn how to write such a script or plug-in?

If you know python I'd head right over to the gimp_xcf.py script located
in inkscape/share/extensions for an example. This particular script only
functions on linux because of the way it uses the gimp cli, but the png
export portion should work fine in windows. If you don't do python, what
language do you want to use? Catch me on Jabber sometime if you have any
questions.

Aaron Spike

> > I'm actually pretty excited about the possibility of using Inkscape to
> > do more-or-less traditional, cel style animation.  One tedious bit,
> > though, is the outputting of the individual png frames.  Would it be
> > possible to write a script or a plug-in that would do that as a batch?
> > So, you'd have background layer plus layer 1 output as 000000.png,
> > background plus layer 2 as 000001.png, and so on?  If so, where would I
> > go to learn how to write such a script or plug-in?

> If you know python I'd head right over to the gimp_xcf.py script located
> in inkscape/share/extensions for an example. This particular script only
> functions on linux because of the way it uses the gimp cli,

I'd be surprised if the working only on linux issue could not be 
resolved
if someone had the time and interest to look into it more closely.

It is a shame XCF was never standardised but the gimp developers do
discourage other programs from implementing XCF so Inkscape should
probably take that advice and "deprecate" it.  If you could export to
a/the defacto standard format like PSD it would offer plenty more 
options
when it comes to software for animating those layers.

If you are willing to run linux to get the XCF export working then you
could use the gimp animation package to create an animation from the XCF
file and there might be some good integration possibilities there which
could really streamline the workflow.

> but the png export portion should work fine in windows. If you don't do
> python, what language do you want to use?

The python extensions are working in 0.44 pre 2 so it would make
sense to use python.

--
Alan

Alan Horkan wrote:
>> functions on linux because of the way it uses the gimp cli,
> 
> I'd be surprised if the working only on linux issue could not be resolved
> if someone had the time and interest to look into it more closely.
> 
> It is a shame XCF was never standardised but the gimp developers do
> discourage other programs from implementing XCF so Inkscape should
> probably take that advice and "deprecate" it.  If you could export to
> a/the defacto standard format like PSD it would offer plenty more options
> when it comes to software for animating those layers.

I can't help but feel a little annoyed at the suggestion that we
deprecate this feature. You didn't do your research. Gimp will begin
shipping a useful cli executable in future versions; the script will
work well on windows then with slight modifications. The extension USES
GIMP to create the XCF (thus the requirement for a cli version of Gimp)
and so does not violate the wishes of the Gimp developers, who seemed
quite happy to assist me in writing the script-fu to make it work.
Lastly, the script was written as an experiment to smooth workflow
between Gimp and Inkscape. XCF is the appropriate format for this task
not PSD.

>> but the png export portion should work fine in windows. If you don't do
>> python, what language do you want to use?
> 
> The python extensions are working in 0.44 pre 2 so it would make
> sense to use python.

Extensions can use any language, so it makes sense to use the language
you are most comfortable in.

Aaron Spike

On 6/5/06, Matt Jordan <matt@mattjordan.com> wrote:
> do more-or-less traditional, cel style animation.  One tedious bit,
> though, is the outputting of the individual png frames.  Would it be
> possible to write a script or a plug-in that would do that as a batch?
> So, you'd have background layer plus layer 1 output as 000000.png,
> background plus layer 2 as 000001.png, and so on?  If so, where would I
> go to learn how to write such a script or plug-in?

Yes, it's easy to do. For example I use a shell script with:

for i in `range /${2}..${3}/`; \
  do inkscape --export-png=${1}-${i}.png --export-id=${i} \
  --export-id-only --export-dpi=400 --export-area-canvas \
  --export-background-opacity=1 ${1}.svg; done

Here, the first script parameter, ${1}, is the name of source SVG
without extension, ${2} is the number of starting layer to export, and
${3} is the final layer. Layer names must be numbers with the same
number of digits, for example 001, 002, ... 010, ... etc. You can make
an empty template with all these layers already added. Then call this
script "ex" and call it:

$ ex filename 001 033

and it will export layers from 001 to 033 into filename-001.png,
filename-002.png, etc.

For this to work you will need the "range" utility available here:
http://suso.suso.org/programs/num-utils

The only problem is that you need to have all your layers to be
unhidden before you call this. I plan to add another command line
switch to force unhiding of the exported object even if it is hidden
in SVG, so manual unhiding in Inkscape will not be needed.

--
bulia byak
Inkscape. Draw Freely.
http://www.inkscape.org

sorry for the late response, busy doing other things but now that I have 
a
chance I have to clarify what I said.

On Mon, 5 Jun 2006, Aaron Spike wrote:

> > probably take that advice and "deprecate" it.  If you could export to
> > a/the defacto standard format like PSD it would offer plenty more options
> > when it comes to software for animating those layers.
>
> I can't help but feel a little annoyed at the suggestion that we
> deprecate this feature.

XCF is a format only one program understands well and others are
discouraged from using it although a few others do understand it.  I
dislike vendor lockin irrespective of the vendor and the lack of open
standards undermines the value open source or free software might have.
The feature is good but a more widely understood format would be
preferable.

> The extension USES GIMP to create the XCF (thus the requirement for a
> cli version of Gimp) and so does not violate the wishes of the Gimp

okay so it uses the gimp directly, and avoids any of the hiccups or 
which
might occur from using anything else.

thinking about the problem futher the gimp does have SVG import which
might prove a better approach for integration, but that may well be what
you are using underneath.

> between Gimp and Inkscape. XCF is the appropriate format for this task
> not PSD.

True but in this case the task the user was asking about was working 
with
Photoshop, in which case PSD would be a better choice and since PSD was
standardised in a limited way and is understood by many different
applications it is a better choice in general (unless maybe you are a
dedicated gimp user).

--
Alan

> thinking about the problem futher the gimp does have SVG import which
> might prove a better approach for integration, but that may well be what
> you are using underneath.
> 
> > between Gimp and Inkscape. XCF is the appropriate format for this task
> > not PSD.

There is MNG (animated png) format which is just what you looking for.

Khiraly

On 6/11/06, Khiraly <khiraly123@gmx.net> wrote:
>
> There is MNG (animated png) format which is just what you looking for.
>
> Khiraly



Sadly  MNG is not as widespread as gif is (yet), would be nice to see it 
as
widely used as animated gifs, though the format is a bit bigger.

On Sun, 11 Jun 2006, Thetargos wrote:

> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:55:17 -0400
> From: Thetargos <thetargos@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: Inkscape User Community <inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net>
> To: Inkscape User Community <inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net>
> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] Inkscape animation test
>
> On 6/11/06, Khiraly <khiraly123@gmx.net> wrote:
> >
> > There is MNG (animated png) format which is just what you looking for.

> Sadly MNG is not as widespread as gif is (yet), would be nice to see it
> as widely used as animated gifs, though the format is a bit bigger.

I expect the size of the files produced has more to do with the programs
than the MNG standard itself.  If anything I'd expect MNG files to be
smaller than the GIF but only if you are doing a fair comparison.

PNG files are often larger than GIF files because GIF only supports 256
colours and PNG supports full colour.  If you force a PNG file to use 
only
256 colours you will get a smaller file than the same GIF.

Given the lack of any widely understood layered file format besides 
Adobe
PSD (widely supported, de facto standard but not actually fully open) I
really hope MNG/JNG will gain widers support so it can be used not just
for animations but also as a file format for most of my layered images.
(It wouldn't be enough for users who need CMYK support in their layered
images but it would be enough for me and many others I'm sure.)

Sincerely

Alan Horkan

Inkscape http://inkscape.org
Abiword http://www.abisource.com
Open Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org

Alan's Diary http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/

Alan Horkan wrote:
>> functions on linux because of the way it uses the gimp cli,
> If you are willing to run linux to get the XCF export working then you
> could use the gimp animation package to create an animation from the XCF
> file and there might be some good integration possibilities there which
> could really streamline the workflow.
> 
>> but the png export portion should work fine in windows. If you don't do
>> python, what language do you want to use?
> 
> The python extensions are working in 0.44 pre 2 so it would make
> sense to use python.
> 

Thanks for the replies.  Sorry it took so long for me to get back to
this, but I was house sitting for a while.  And when I got back, I
switched to Ubuntu Linux, so you can disregard the Windows limitations
now.  :D

I plan to try some walk tests this evening with Inkscape and Stopmotion.
  By this weekend, I hope to get back into figuring out how to
streamline the multi-png thing, once I have a better handle on exactly
what my needs are.

Oh, and my ultimate goal is to output these animations for DVD.  I'm not
looking to do web animations (a la animated .gifs or anything like
that).  Just in case that matters.

Again, thanks for the guidance.

Matt Jordan

bulia byak wrote:
> for i in `range /${2}..${3}/`; \
> 
> switch to force unhiding of the exported object even if it is hidden
> in SVG, so manual unhiding in Inkscape will not be needed.
> 


Thanks for the help.  I'm on Ubuntu Linux now and I'll try to play with
this suggestion some this weekend.

Cheers,

Matt Jordan