Inkscape Forum Inkscape > Windows 7

Does Inkscape support Windows 7 ?

Jerome

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Inkscape is implemented on a very wide collection of platforms -- as it 
is
open source, anyone can download the source and compile it for their own
system. A number of people with the skills to do this have prepared 
compiled
versions and made them available. Occasionally, there are some features
and/or plugins that require libraries that are not available on all
platforms, but the Inkscape open source community almost always moves in 
to
provide substitute code to make them work.

Like Linux, Inkscape has a large community of highly technical users - 
the
good news is they volunteer thousands of hours to improve the program - 
the
bad news is they don't always play well with others who lack their 
technical
backgrounds and skills. In both camps, that situation is improving as
volunteers provide more and better documentation and forums like this 
one
become more active.

Jack

I do not support Windows or any other proprietary software or system.
But that does not mean that my code wont work on these systems or even
boycott them. In fact, it works exactly the opposite way: my code
often runs well on Windows even if I do not care. And if it breaks
something, people come and fix it.

On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Jack Armstrong

On 24/01/2010, Jack Armstrong <jackcarmstrong@gmail.com> wrote:
> bad news is they don't always play well with others who lack their technical
> backgrounds and skills.

Do you have any actual examples of this that as I think we do pretty
well at not being 2 camps that dont communicate. The dont play well
bit may be true for a lot of linux projects, but we make quite a
concerted effort to make it not true for inkscape.

I use Inkscape to create vector files that ultimately are converted for 
use
with computerized paper cutting machines - these are either converted 
vinyl
cutters or special purpose machines designed for use by home hobbyists 
to
make scrapbook pages, cards, etc. The users are amateur crafts people, 
not
professional artisans nor skilled computer users. Unfortunately, the
software they must use to drive their cutters is almost universally
Microsoft based. Not to generalize, but most of these users are women, 
and
most are barely comfortable turning a PC on and using it for email.

I participate in several forums for these hobbyists, frequently 
answering
questions about how to use PCs in general. I've recommended Inkscape, 
but
many of them find the learning curve too steep, preferring proprietary
software that comes with their machines - very limited in what it can 
do,
but stone simple to operate. Photoshop is a stretch for these people, 
and
things like Illustrator totally beyond what they want to learn (or pay 
for).
I've also recommended Linux distros like Ubuntu, but this is a different
audience - if it doesn't turn on and work by itself, they look 
elsewhere.
Like all too many PC users, if their machine gives them any problems, 
they
dump it and buy a new one - with the latest Microsoft disaster. Apple 
loses
out on this market except for those capable of using Boot Camp to run 
their
cutter software - plus their added cost.

I'm a retired computer scientist with 40+ years of experience with 
dozens of
vendors and operating systems. I run multiple machines and like this 
one,
often implement dual-boot Linux/XP (XP is where I draw the line - no 
VIsta
or sons of Vista). Like many, there are a few MS-only applications I 
need to
run, but the primary reason I bother to maintain anything Microslop is 
to
test web sites I develop as a sideline - I develop with Firefox, but 
have to
somehow make them render more or less the same on Internet Exploder. 
I've
given up kludging to make IE6 work, but there are still too many users 
world
wide who think Internet browsing means using the thing that came with 
their
latest PC purchase. As a side note, this means not being able to use svg
images on my web sites, since IE chokes on them.

Back to Inkscape - I'd love to see a scaled down version that implements 
a
short list of features sufficient to create line designs (color is
immaterial here - cutters only cut, not paint), save files in svg, and
perhaps with an optional plugin to allow output to craft cutters. Some 
of
these machines use HPGL, but too many require some variation thereof and
would have to be customized for a particular machine. Not a huge 
audience,
and one that would require some initial hand-holding, but once 
introduced to
Inkscape in a gentle way, I predict they would be enthusiastic 
supporters
and want to grow into using more advanced capabilities. I know there has
been some interest here in an HPGL output option, but there needs to be 
a
means of specifying additional information - i.e., cutting speed, knife
pressure, etc. that are generally unique to the cutter being used. I do
correspond with some advanced users who use Inkscape like I do, but they
tend to be skilled artists in another life and very skilled in the use 
of
computers in general.

Sorry if I offended any of the Inkscape or Linux community, but I've 
long
held the belief that machines need to accommodate to the user's, not the
other way around. Assuming a basic knowledge of Unix skills and 
vocabulary
in order to use a device makes support a lot easier, but severely 
restricts
the user base. Much as I hate Microsoft, if you're willing to pay for 
the
excess hardware and willing to eat anything they but on your plate - 
they *
do* make it easy for machine-phobic users to make simplistic use of 
their
PCs. So does Apple, but it costs more.

</soapbox mode>

Jack

On Sunday 24 January 2010 03:37:35 pm Jack Armstrong wrote:
> I use Inkscape to create vector files that ultimately are converted for use
> with computerized paper cutting machines - these are either converted vinyl
> cutters or special purpose machines designed for use by home hobbyists to
> make scrapbook pages, cards, etc. The users are amateur crafts people, not
> professional artisans nor skilled computer users. Unfortunately, the
> software they must use to drive their cutters is almost universally
> Microsoft based. Not to generalize, but most of these users are women, and
> most are barely comfortable turning a PC on and using it for email.
> 

We would like the cutter and scrap booking communities to not have to 
use
proprietary software as well. But like you said most of the people in 
those
communities are not skilled computer users. There in lies the rub most 
non-
technical user think the technical user don't care or want about their 
input.

> disaster. Apple loses out on this market except for those capable of using
> Boot Camp to run their cutter software - plus their added cost.
> 

What exactly are they having troubles with? Is it have to learn too much 
at
one time. If so the easy solution is to make a tutorial that clearly 
state
these are the only tools and functions you have to know. All the other 
stuff is
extra and can be fun to play with if thing have time, but totally not 
needed.

A second thing that will help more in the long run is to help us build a 
user
profile that helps us account for this type of user when making design
decisions.


> needs to be a means of specifying additional information - i.e., cutting
> speed, knife pressure, etc. that are generally unique to the cutter being
> used. I do correspond with some advanced users who use Inkscape like I do,
> but they tend to be skilled artists in another life and very skilled in
> the use of computers in general.

This is clearly an area the Inkscape and the FOSS world in general needs 
help.
We were starting to work with a couple of groups to help get this 
sorted, but
the project fell apart. We really just waiting to find a motivated 
contributor
who is interested in this. Since everyone works on the things that 
interest
them. The good news is joining the team is easy. Two patches, 
translation
updates, documentation additions get you commit rights to BZR.

> 
> Sorry if I offended any of the Inkscape or Linux community, but I've long
> held the belief that machines need to accommodate to the user's, not the
> other way around. Assuming a basic knowledge of Unix skills and vocabulary
> in order to use a device makes support a lot easier, but severely restricts
> the user base. 

I'm not offended. I'm worried that there is someone in our community 
that has
given you that impression.  We are a warm and friendly community and if 
anyone
is not treating you correctly, please let us know so it can be dealt 
with.

I'm probably very jaded for determining if Inkscape is requires *nix 
skills
and vocabulary since I completely moved away from the windows world 6+ 
years
ago. Please tell us exactly were we are making things overly complex or 
to
unix-y this will help us improve our user experience.


If you have time please relay to us your experiences with the 
communities you
work with this will help us build a better Inkscape.


Joshua L. Blocher
verbalshadow

On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 4:29 PM, Joshua L. Blocher
<verbalshadow@gmail.com>wrote:

>
> We would like the cutter and scrap booking communities to not have to use
> proprietary software as well. But like you said most of the people in those
> communities are not skilled computer users. There in lies the rub most non-
> technical user think the technical user don't care or want about their
> input.
>

Yes, some non-techies get that impression, but I think it comes about as 
a
result of a response to a question that is couched in terminology they 
don't
understand. Additionally, some people look at groups like this and see 
very
technical questions being asked with very technical responses and they
simply slink away without asking... Don't know what to do about that 
other
than occasionally posting a request for any level of question and a 
promise
to answer them all... On the forum there is a sub-group for cutters - 
note
how many requests for cutter support have gone unanswered or simply 
written
off as "not possible".

What exactly are they having troubles with? Is it have to learn too much 
at
> one time. If so the easy solution is to make a tutorial that clearly state
> these are the only tools and functions you have to know. All the other
> stuff is
> extra and can be fun to play with if thing have time, but totally not
> needed.
>

There are a few tutorials for how to use Inkscape for these hobby users 
and
they have helped somewhat, but as I stated before, many of these people 
are
intimidated by the tool bars in Photoshop - Inkscape comes with too many
features (at least too many turned on?) and they assume it's too 
complicated
for them.


>
> A second thing that will help more in the long run is to help us build a
> user
> profile that helps us account for this type of user when making design
> decisions.
>

OK... I started on a project to review the hobby cutter software out 
there
and make a list of features: have to have; commonly available and nice 
to
have; competition beater, etc. I got as far as a list of what file 
formats
each would accept & output nad ran out of time. I'm still out of time, 
but
this conversation has me interested again. No promises, but I just added 
it
to my to do list.

 This is clearly an area the Inkscape and the FOSS world in general 
needs
> help.
> We were starting to work with a couple of groups to help get this sorted,
> but
> the project fell apart. We really just waiting to find a motivated
> contributor
> who is interested in this. Since everyone works on the things that interest
> them. The good news is joining the team is easy. Two patches, translation
> updates, documentation additions get you commit rights to BZR.
>

 I'm motivated, but not sure I'm a contributor -- my programming skills
other than those use to build web sites are pretty rusty, and I remember 
all
too well how coding can consume you - I *am* trying to retire!

>
>
> If you have time please relay to us your experiences with the communities
> you
> work with this will help us build a better Inkscape.
>

Excellent idea - unfortunately, one of the most active groups is 
dedicated
to a specific cutter and their proprietary software so I'd have to lure 
them
into helping very tactfully... that said, I think it would be possible 
-- I
have a few friends there and in a couple of other groups. Where is the 
best
place to make any findings or suggestions public?

Jack at HighSierraDesign dot com

On Jan 25, 2010, at 1:29 PM, Joshua L. Blocher wrote:

>> needs to be a means of specifying additional information - i.e., cutting
> updates, documentation additions get you commit rights to BZR.
Well, I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that a groundswell 
of users in this area has made this something that will be gaining 
attention and at least some work to address this year.

First of all, here at linux.conf.au I had a chance to talk with a few 
guys from Ponoko ( http://www.ponoko.com ). They're very interested in 
promoting the use of open source to physically make things. As part of 
that, they too expressed a strong desire for a simplified UI that helps 
Inkscape support cutter users in getting up to speed more quickly. Given 
that they are a commercial company, we at least have a strong business 
reason for them to collect up good UI data for what will benefit people. 
Then we on our side can implement appropriate things more easily.

Additionally, much of the task-oriented adaptive UI work that I've 
started should enable just that sort of 'focused' interface that will 
benefit cutter artists. This also should cover home paper cutters, CNC 
routers, professional laser cutters, etc.

There was also a good contingent of makers here, with reprap's and other 
such goodness. Many are using Inkscape now to be able to craft files for 
driving things, and improving that workflow would benefit many people. 
So we have end users wanting things improved, commercial companies 
looking to help that happen, and talented individuals experienced in the 
making arena who can help make it happen.

There are other forthcoming developments that will be announced next 
month. The sort of thing that can really help promote the use of 
Inkscape and other open source projects in the realm of physically 
making things... so keep you eyes peeled.

> Well, I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that a groundswell of users in this area has made this something that will be gaining attention and at least some work to address this year.
>
> First of all, here at linux.conf.au I had a chance to talk with a few guys from Ponoko ( http://www.ponoko.com ). They're very interested in promoting the use of open source to physically make things.

I have been using Inkscape to draw artwork for my homebrew pinball
machine project and I am also using it to cut acrylic parts  for it.
You can see photos, videos and blogposts in these links:

* http://www.flickr.com/photos/felipesanches
* http://www.youtube.com/user/felipesanches
* http://jucablues.blogspot.com/

I also know that Jeri Ellsworth uses Inkscape to design her pinball 
stuff:

* http://www.youtube.com/user/jeriellsworth
* http://www.fatmanandcircuitgirl.com/live/

Actually, my homebrew pinball project is THE reason why I discovered
some years ago the existance of Inkscape (because I was looking for a
free software CAD and stumbled upon Inkscape, which is not a CAD tool
but got me seduced) and ultimately became an Inkscape developer.

cheers,
Felipe Sanches (a.k.a. JucaBlues)